Weaknesses and Luck

[The Fiendish Dr. Samsara]

The Rules are here: let’s change ‘em!

My next topic: Weaknesses and Luck.

I’m a fellow who played Champions and then HERO exclusively for several years and once thought the idea of Disadvantages was really, really wonderful. However, I have, in recent years, become a full-throttle convert to the mechanic of Complications instead. The problem with Disads, to me, is that the player usually takes them, hoping that they won’t come up in play. They encourage a kind of tactical CharGen I dislike, as well as other Gamist attitudes (such as the Alcoholic character who makes a point of avoiding all alcohol so he won’t be badgered into “role-playing properly”). With Complications, the player is hoping the opposite, that his issue will come up, because he gets goodies (meta-game resources) when they do (I’ve discovered with some satisfaction than Steve Kenson seems to be paralleling my train of thought between 1st and 2nd ed Mutants & Masterminds).

So, I don’t really like Weaknesses as presented in the rules. Admittedly, they are far better in ZEFRS than in HERO because you would only take one or two (as opposed to the long strings of Disads in the latter game). But still, I don’t like giving extra CP’s for ‘em.

Similarly, although I think the idea of PC’s having an unknown stash of Luck Points has some genre flavor, ultimately I find it a bad idea. My experiences with unknown resources in play is that players either A)get conservative and never use anything or B)figure they’ll never know when they’ll run out and so just use them up as soon as possible. Neither is very satisfying to me. So I’d rather not hide the Luck Points.

Taking these two ideas, I would convert the Weaknesses into a form of Complication and say that they do not generate CP’s at CharGen; rather, whenever they come up and notably make the character’s life harder, the character earns a Luck Point. Now, instead of the anomalously abstinent drunkard, the player has a mechanically supported reason to go out and get stupid drunk and wind up in the Overlord’s bed’s with his twin daughters: Luck Points (which he probably has to use to escape from the angry Overlord. Such is the life of an S&S hero).

Going further, I’m thinking that ZEFRS might be a good place to try out an idea I had a long time ago, which I called “tactical metagaming” or “choosing when to lose”. I couldn’t quite figure this out when I initially played with it, but the whole concept of Complications has clarified it for me and FATE made it even sharper. In ZEFRS, I think it might be called “Calling your Fate” or “Spinning the Wheel (of Fortune)”. In essence, a player who finds himself in need of Luck Points (which maybe should be called Fate Points or Doom Points or Wyrd Points), asks the GM to give him some. In exchange, one or more of his Weaknesses are “activated”. This would be rather like a player asking for a Compel in FATE.

In other words, rather than letting the GM decide when to screw you with a Complication, the player has the agency. He calls for Luck to do something he wants to do, with full knowledge that it will cause his trouble later. To me, anyway, this really takes the sting out of getting hit with a Complication because I asked for it.

In this second revision, I would say that the Luck Pool should remain very small most of the time, in order to encourage Calling your Fate. Maybe the Pool starts at 0 at the beginning of every game. If the player really feels the need to build up a big pool…well, have fun, Elric (who might need some new Weaknesses to represent killing everyone and everything he loves ).

Thoughts?

[markkrawec]

After reading some of the online Conan stories (thanks Evil DM!) it occurred to me that the game might could use "deus ex" points. Spend one & there just happens to be a skeleton clutching a dagger at the bottom of the pit you were thrown into. Or the fellows you're chained at this bank of oars with just happen to have served with you in a mercenary company. Maybe you could earn deus ex points by giving in to your weaknesses? (Which would get you into jams that you would escape by using your deus ex points...)

These work a little differently from luck points in that a deus ex points lets the player extemporize items or events into the situation, rather than perform a stunt.

[The Fiendish Dr. Samsara]

I know what you are saying: the Conan stories among others operate by certain genre conventions. One way to handle that is to use something along the lines of Dramatic Editing, which is, I think, an appropriate extension of the Luck Point mechanic. Another version which I kind of like are Gold Stars from the Prince Valiant game, which gave access to various genre events such as "You discover a secret door" and "But the princess has a hidden key".

I think the idea bears working on and works hand-in-hand with what i was suggesting. So:

Kuran Besh finds himself in a tough fight. He activates his "Drunkard" Weakness and gets a Luck Point, which he uses to win the fight. After that, he finds himself in a bar somewhere in the depths of Tarshesh, roaring drunk. The GM compels his "Weakness for a Pretty Face", gives him another Luck Point, and he winds up the next morning in the bed of the Overlord's twin daughters. He spends that Luck Point to discover a fortuitous secret passage from the twin's room into a storeroom in the dungeons. Where he discovers a weird idol. And so it goes.

[The Fiendish Dr. Samsara]

I was looking at Prince Valiant again last night. First, I was confusing "Gold Stars" with "Special Effects" (this for the pedants in the room). But the idea is right and, I think, right for ZEFRS. What I like about PV's Special Effects is that they are specific and thus tuned into genre. Dramatic Editing, of the kind you find in Adventure! and SotC is so undefined that it can easily go in non-genre directions.

What I think I might do is come up with a ZEFRS-appropriate list of, oh, let's call them them "Plot Twists" and say that invoking them requires a Luck Point. Luck Points can still be used other ways, such as manipulating dice rolls, but Plot Twists are probably more powerful. There are only a few PV Special Effects, but they do get to the heart of things by and large. I will change some of them, however. For example, they have a separate "Find escape route" and "Escape Bonds"; I think I will just have some more general such as "Fortuitous Escape!". But most of the rest works as is: "Inflame lust", "Discover something hidden", "Incite passions of the crowd". Covers most of what you want to do. I might add some things along the lines of "Useful item secreted on your person" and "Enemy revealed as secret ally", which seem appropriate to me and not on PV's list.

I will post a list here when I get it together.

[The Fiendish Dr. Samsara]

Here’s my proposed list of Plot Twists:

• Death Curse The character, on the verge of certain doom, can bring about a Death Curse upon his foes. The Death Curse must be negative in intent and could not, for example, bring about good luck to his living allies. The Curse will work subtly, but inexorably. Thus a Curse of “Death to the Emperor!” will not result in the Emperor dropping dead at the moment, but he may soon contract a fatal disease or be thrown and trampled by his horse on the way home.
  
  
• Defeat your Foe One foe is completely defeated in combat but is not killed. Killing a foe requires winning a standard combat. But any other kind of defeat can be invoked through this Plot Twist; an enemy can be knocked out, disabled, or otherwise rendered ineffective. The enemy can also appear to die in some unverifiable manner, such as falling off of a cliff, but he will, in fact, survive. This Plot Twist cannot be followed by a standard combat attempt against the foe. It can frequently lead to a debt of vengeance on the foe’s part.
  
  
• Escape! The character spends 1 Luck Point to fortuitously escape from his bonds or confinement. Potential escapes could include slicing through the ropes around his wrists against a sharp rock, finding a secret passage from the dungeon cell, or even eating a vulture while crucified and then being released by bandits.
  
  
• Find the Hidden Item The character finds some item that has been hidden.
  
  
• Incite/Calm the Crowd The character arouses the passions of a crowd and can direct them with one, simple command. Examples include: “Burn the Temple!”, “Save the Princess!”, “Flee the Horde!”.
  
  
• Inspire Individual The character can inspire some emotion in an individual. Typical examples include pity, hatred, and lust.
  
  Alternately, the character can calm the passions of an aroused mob.

What do you think? Any other, genre-appropriate twists that I have forgotten

[etsmith]

Others you can add:

Hearts Desire: a newly met NPC of the player's choice swoons over them and falls into deep infatuation. For all those sighing temple maidens, you know.

Ready Steed: A horse is close at hand that the character can leap onto and ride off without difficulty. Not necessarily their own, it can be freed quickly and offers no significant resistance.

The Dark Path: The character can elude pursuit by ducking into a route the pursuers will refuse to go. Typically a shadowed forest road bedecked with carved skulls. The GM has full discretion as to why the path is shunned.

[markkrawec]

I've got one!

Mutual Foes Attack!: just as your foe is about to run you through/your party is about to go down to defeat, a third party, equally hostile to both sides, attacks. You can join forces or use the distraction to escape.

[The Fiendish Dr. Samsara]

etsmith said:

Others you can add:

Hearts Desire: a newly met NPC of the player's choice swoons over them and falls into deep infatuation. For all those sighing temple maidens, you know.

Ready Steed: A horse is close at hand that the character can leap onto and ride off without difficulty. Not necessarily their own, it can be freed quickly and offers no significant resistance.

The Dark Path: The character can elude pursuit by ducking into a route the pursuers will refuse to go. Typically a shadowed forest road bedecked with carved skulls. The GM has full discretion as to why the path is shunned.

While I think those are good, they are actually already covered under the ones I suggested above. I suppose a point to consider is whether you prefer having very general Plot Twists to be fleshed out in play (the route I chose) or a longer list of more specific Twists (such as you presented).

So, the effects of Heart's Desire is perfectly right for S&S. I have that under Inspire Individual, which could do other things as well. Ditto with Ready Steed and The Dark Path, both of which are specific versions of my Escape! Twist.