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Post by markkrawec on Jun 3, 2008 8:57:17 GMT -5
Totally off topic here, but - changing the barrel? You mean you need to swap out machine gun barrels while you're shooting? Yikes!
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Post by sambudak on Jun 3, 2008 10:34:36 GMT -5
Totally off topic here, but - changing the barrel? You mean you need to swap out machine gun barrels while you're shooting? Yikes! Yeah-- they overheat and warp. So you stop shootin' and change the barrel. The water-cooled guns I imagine it would be a huge pain and it certainly would take more'n the d10 turns. Apparently that's why gunners have asbestos gloves. From what I've heard gunners are trained to shoot short bursts to lengthen the time between changes-- among other things. In any case my knowlege of guns is purely gamer related-- I think they're fun for gaming, but IRL they scare me. GURPS High Tech was a wealth of information for me. There's also a reference work called Weapons, not an RPG book, but it also has a crapload of information I've used for gaming. Stuff like grenade launchers are a 17/18th cent. innovation, either from a hand-mortar( looks like a big-mouthed short-barrel blunderbuss) or from a cup you fix to a longarm. There was also a kind of rodded grenade( rod slides into barrel of musket, blank charge to launch the warhead). Cripes grenades aren't new either-- light the fuse and toss it( hollow powder filled iron or ceramic ball, screw in fuse). Oh-- and airguns. They had muzzle-loading airguns in the 18th century. That would do more than put your eye out. |
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Post by markkrawec on Jun 3, 2008 12:23:19 GMT -5
Grenades! *foreheadsmack*
That's what I forgot - explosives. Anybody want to take a sh ... er, write up some rules for those?
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Post by The Evil DM on Jun 3, 2008 17:41:47 GMT -5
Back in the 80's I was an M60 gunner in the army. I had to lug around the weapon, a spare barrel, the glove, a pistol,and ammo in addition to my other gear. Luckily I was an MP so we rode jeeps everywhere. I didn't envy the 11b 60 gunners.
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Post by markkrawec on Jun 3, 2008 20:18:19 GMT -5
"[T]he glove"? You only got one? You would think that would be a two-handed job!  |
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Post by sambudak on Jun 3, 2008 22:42:34 GMT -5
Back in the 80's I was an M60 gunner in the army. I had to lug around the weapon, a spare barrel, the glove, a pistol,and ammo in addition to my other gear. Luckily I was an MP so we rode jeeps everywhere. I didn't envy the 11b 60 gunners. See now this is why folks play GURPS, why I do anyhow, the simulation of the minutia is important. I'm going over the info on black powder guns, and finding that matchlocks are a giant pain in the ass. How the guys managed to keep a match lit( cord of burning stuff), load, and not fire off some loose powder or burn themselves constantly or whatever I dunno. Maybe they did burn themselves alot, or shoot the guy next in the line alot. Probably a better job than farming-- but not by much. For ZeFRS I'm going against the grain of twenty years of simulationist immersion RPGing. Its liberating, but I find myself wondering how much difference will it make whether a player chooses a .45 M1911 or a Luger by the rules. It really won't is the thing-- but there is some stuff like damage and initiative that might be deciders. The real deal for ZeFRS is what is "coolest" for that PC you're gonna run-- but the brain-washing of the last two decades is hard tp overcome. I suppose grenades and explosives are a must-do deal along with the other stuff. Blowing crap up is fun... even if its just the illegal fireworks you got in Wisconsin. |
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Post by The Evil DM on Jun 4, 2008 14:41:16 GMT -5
For ZeFRS I'm going against the grain of twenty years of simulationist immersion RPGing. Its liberating, but I find myself wondering how much difference will it make whether a player chooses a .45 M1911 or a Luger by the rules. It really won't is the thing-- but there is some stuff like damage and initiative that might be deciders. The real deal for ZeFRS is what is "coolest" for that PC you're gonna run-- but the brain-washing of the last two decades is hard tp overcome. If I remember correctly (i'm at work, so no rpg library) FASERIP (marvel superheroes) just lists firearms by their size. Why couldnt you just give one set of stats for a military rifle M1 Garand, Arisaka, M14, Mauser, etc. or military pistol - colt .45, luger 9mm, mauser broom handle, etc. or small pistol - .25 automatic. .22 revolver, etc. the type of gun just matters as far as the story or flavor. the actual damage mechanic will depend on its size. did that make sense?? |
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Post by The Evil DM on Jun 4, 2008 14:43:46 GMT -5
"[T]he glove"? You only got one? You would think that would be a two-handed job! one hand holds the weapon steady, swapping out an m60 barrel is easy. If I remember correctly. i hardly ever got to fire the d**n thing. I cleaned it a lot though. |
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Post by sambudak on Jun 4, 2008 22:47:21 GMT -5
For ZeFRS I'm going against the grain of twenty years of simulationist immersion RPGing. Its liberating, but I find myself wondering how much difference will it make whether a player chooses a .45 M1911 or a Luger by the rules. It really won't is the thing-- but there is some stuff like damage and initiative that might be deciders. The real deal for ZeFRS is what is "coolest" for that PC you're gonna run-- but the brain-washing of the last two decades is hard tp overcome. If I remember correctly (i'm at work, so no rpg library) FASERIP (marvel superheroes) just lists firearms by their size. Why couldnt you just give one set of stats for a military rifle M1 Garand, Arisaka, M14, Mauser, etc. or military pistol - colt .45, luger 9mm, mauser broom handle, etc. or small pistol - .25 automatic. .22 revolver, etc. the type of gun just matters as far as the story or flavor. the actual damage mechanic will depend on its size. did that make sense?? Perfect sense... which is why I'm doing that. The list will be pretty generic, but there are some interesting firearms to liven things up some I'll toss in. The list will include light-to-heavy for firearms from the earliest up to say the 1950's or so. I'll list caliber or something so there's enough to go on if someone wants a boomstick not listed otherwise. Nothing earth-shattering in its brilliance here. I just need the time to sit down and put the crap together-- and three little ones eat up a huge amount of the stuff. |
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Post by sambudak on Jun 6, 2008 1:20:03 GMT -5
Alright, here's the stuff I got so far. The basics are firearms are seperated into two types-- black powder(BP) and guns. BP weapons are the old muzzle-loaders or whatever( matchlocks up through caplocks the deal is any gun loaded with loose powder and shot) and guns use self-contained cartridges( I am aware that cartridge guns used black powder until around just late 19th century). Each talent will be divvied up as either BP or Guns by type and "weight"( BP light pistol, or Guns Medium SMG etc.)--there's enough types( pistol, shotgun/blunderbuss, musket/rifle, SMG, MG) to go around so I decided to sorta simplify and not make each weapon a different talent.
Damage is:
BP pistols L0/M1/H2
BP rifles/muskets L1/M2/H3
BPblunderbuss 3( sorta a M/H gun)( see shotgun also)
Pistol L1/M2/H3
Rifle L2/M3/H4
SMG L1/M2/H3( SMGs fire pistol ammo generally)
MG L3/M4/H69( there are a few rifles that fire HMG rounds-- Barret, Boys anti-tank rifle etc.)
Shotgun L2/M3/H4( special rule is that you may attack two adjacent targets at short range with one attack)
ROF is more complex for BP weapons since the various lock types and rifling vary the rate, but Guns are a bit more straight-forward.
ROF:
BP matchlock 1/10
BP matchlock rifle 1/16
BP wheellock 1/10
BP wheelock rifle 1/16
BP flintlock 1/4
BP flintlock rifle 1/10
BP caplock 1/4
BP caplock rifle 1/10
Guns Pistol single action 1 for whatever weight
Guns Pistol double action revolvers or semi-autos 2
Guns Rifle bolt-action or single action 1
Guns Rifle lever/pump/semi-auto 2
Guns Rifle auto/assault/etc L8/M6/H4
Guns SMG L10/M8/H6
Guns MG L12/M10/H8
Guns Shotgun pump or lever 2
Guns Shotgun semi-auto 2
Guns Shotgun auto/assault 6
Range is something I'm still working on, but the table in the Companion will be my guide. Note that most BP weapons are not rifled-- and those that are will get a longer effective range.
Suppressed weapons( that is silenced) generally have about half the effective range. You can out a silencer on about any Gun, but revolvers( and of course there's an exception to or two to this).
What you fellas think so far?
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